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Author Topic: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine  (Read 23993 times)

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2018, 04:05:50 PM »
Thanks for the update Rinix. I too am hoping for a 'patch' of some sort for 4.023, be it in an actual hotfix or a newer version of Steelbeasts.
Me too. We were promised "At least one more free update...".
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #211 on: March 14, 2018, 03:57:43 AM »
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/12/the-flare-path-hows-it-going-2/
This is from January. And who are we to believe, Ssnake when he says in the 4.023 release notes "the next update, currently scheduled for July 2017", or Ssnake when says that "I’m not entirely sure when we will find the time for another attempt to release the 4.1 version with the high-res terrain engine"?
Quote from: Ssnake
“One of the things we’ve been working on in 2017 was the replacement of all of Steel Beasts’ foliage artwork with new grass and trees. This is intended to complement the release of the new high-res terrain engine which is now scheduled for this year.

I could explain in depth (and bore everyone to death in the process) why the terrain engine delays happened. At the end of the day it was a combination of underestimating the cascading effect of changing one fundamental design parameter – increasing the ground resolution by a factor of 512 – and the desire of our users to see established workflows maintained (like last-minute changes on a map when designing a scenario). This was perfectly valid of course but difficult to implement when inflated file sizes meet rural low-bandwidth internet connections. Not everybody lives in the city.

Anyway, these technical constraints forced us to become more creative with the way that we’re managing resources, which in turn required user interface design changes… and we still have other projects to work on. So eventually the window of opportunity for a release in September ’17 closed, and all that we could do was to at least wrap up all the bug fixes that were made during the last summer’s beta test phase which is now 4.023 that we released last month.

We are now in a phase where we have a number of contractual obligations to meet so I’m not entirely sure when we will find the time for another attempt to release the 4.1 version with the high-res terrain engine. What I can say is that 4.1 isn’t in a bad shape, just not quite ready for a public release. A part of the team will continue to work on it, and once it reaches maturity we will push it out. It’s just that we can’t have the full team work exclusively on this right now. That’s the downside of our hybrid business. But then again, without that business model there wouldn’t be a Personal Edition of SB Pro to begin with.”

Also note this comment: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/12/the-flare-path-hows-it-going-2/#comment-2569179
Quote from: Pulstar
As for SB, it takes forever to do anything with their archaic engine. I’ve played tank games (minus the penetration simulation of course) that look miles better made by individuals not teams.
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Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #212 on: March 14, 2018, 09:32:24 AM »
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/12/the-flare-path-hows-it-going-2/
This is from January. And who are we to believe, Ssnake when he says in the 4.023 release notes "the next update, currently scheduled for July 2017", or Ssnake when says that "I’m not entirely sure when we will find the time for another attempt to release the 4.1 version with the high-res terrain engine"?
Quote from: Ssnake


I could explain in depth (and bore everyone to death in the process) why the terrain engine delays happened. At the end of the day it was a combination of underestimating the cascading effect of changing one fundamental design parameter – increasing the ground resolution by a factor of 512 – and the desire of our users to see established workflows maintained (like last-minute changes on a map when designing a scenario). This was perfectly valid of course but difficult to implement when inflated file sizes meet rural low-bandwidth internet connections. Not everybody lives in the city.


:lol

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #213 on: March 14, 2018, 03:41:53 PM »
I was able to get the original screenshots from the article, the links to them as well as the down-sized previews are below. I’ve got mixed feelings about 4.1. On one hand, the lighting and grass are much improved. On the other hand, the trees look OK up close, but awful at a distance. I won’t be able to check off “Spruced-up trees (pun intended)” from my wish list yet.

https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2018/01/SS_14_08_55.jpg


https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2018/01/sim200a.jpg


https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images//2018/01/SS_13_36_50.jpg
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Offline Frankie

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #214 on: March 14, 2018, 04:49:47 PM »
Hey Rinix, them there SB Pro PE 4.1 graphics ain't half-bad. The lighting and detail ... actually looks very nice to me. As for the RPSG article from which the screenshots came from,  https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/12/the-flare-path-hows-it-going-2/#more-507803, I didn't realize that I am considered as a "leisure customer".

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #215 on: March 14, 2018, 04:56:30 PM »
Yeah, I already posted the link. And as I've already said, I do like the new lighting and grass.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #216 on: April 01, 2018, 03:56:44 AM »
https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/training/esim-games/ I've posted a link to this elsewhere, but I got distracted by the other things in it that I've posted about. So it's time for me to get to posting the other images of the new terrain engine here.




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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #217 on: April 27, 2018, 04:44:53 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/12005-lets-do-some-grass/?tab=comments#comment-181405
Quote from: Ssnake
Also, 4.1 does away with the gradual (8 bit) transparency for foliage. What's more, 4.1 will bring the option to have map-specific texture sets. This is a prime example where this would be hugely beneficial.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #218 on: May 13, 2018, 09:40:15 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-181868
Ssnake isn't making any sense. He sets up a strawman about how he doesn't think a super detailed dev blog would be a useful use of his time, yet by his own admission, he is busy using up so much time with emails about the release date. Those emails could have been prevented if Ssnake had just made a sticky post on the forum directing people to read the 4.023 release notes for a possible release date for 4.1. That doesn't require Ssnake to set up his dev blog strawman. And maybe BigBadVuk wouldn't need to ask on the forum. I'm still shocked that to this day, apparently no one on the Steel Beasts forum has read the 4.023 release notes.
Quote from: Ssnake
We're definitely working on it. The question is, what kind of an information policy works best. We try to be as open and up-front as we can about things, but there are limits as to how much actually makes sense to disclose. Sure, I guess we could set up a developers blog where you get a daily or weekly summary of activities, but I don't think that this is a useful investment of precious time, nor will it necessarily inform you better about the situation. The daily ups and downs are statistical noise, but often enough people misread them as trends and then you're forced to combat the spreading of rumors and disinformation.

To name an example, someone here in the forum once asked in October, maybe even in this thread, about "Steel Beasts 5.0".

I never mentioned it, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist, not even as a concept. To this day I still have to answer emails inquiring about its release date, and what the features will be. This simply absorbs so much time, I'm not keen on having more of that. That's why I usually keep my mouth shut. There are occasions - like when Rock Paper Shotgun asked about a statement (in the cotext of asking a lot of other developers at the same time), so I gave them my assessment of the situation which wasn't fundamentally different from what I wrote here in the forum, plus a handful of nice-looking screenshots.

Today, I saw for the first time an earthmover digging an emplacement at runtime.

In about 17 hours we'll be demonstrating it live at the annual Steel Beasts Conference for our uniformed customers. Then ITEC week is on, and we'll be back home for the weekend to do the laundry and catching up on emails, and resuming the blood work of bug killing.

I've mentioned it before on a couple of occasions, but I guess it deserves repetition. Release dates for the Personal Edition depend on a work schedule that we set well in advance. Releasing a PE version is "a work package" just like "creating a playable T-72" is "a work package". It means to committ more than 50% of the entire team's work capacity for more than four months towards that single goal. If, for whatever reason, this window of opportunity is missed, you can't just extend that deadline. Other jobs are waiting, and with them come contractual obligations. Only once that we have fulfilled our obligations can we think of setting up another period devoted to a PE release.
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-181871
Quote from: Ssnake
No, the earth was shattered by that VBIED leaving a crater.

Kev2go has an interesting point regarding Eagle Dynamics, but he gets the overdue time wrong: it's 2 years, not 3 years:
Quote from: Kev2go
NO actually. dont recall any content being promised in 2 weeks by ED and being overdue by 3 years.

ED doesnt give exact dates either, only "end of the month (or season) deadlines" if content is deemed far along to be sent to Pre purchase status and generally it is has been thus far to such rough deadlines.
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Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #219 on: May 13, 2018, 09:54:15 PM »
When you take $40 (for the update) from customers with the terrain update as a main feature, you are responsible to the customers. Saying you cannot deliver to the PE customers due to other deadlines is kind of  :Wag finger

At this point I just accept that Esims makes promises they cannot deliver. I enjoy other sims.  :thumbsup

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #220 on: May 13, 2018, 11:48:14 PM »
When you take $40 (for the update) from customers with the terrain update as a main feature, you are responsible to the customers. Saying you cannot deliver to the PE customers due to other deadlines is kind of  :Wag finger

At this point I just accept that Esims makes promises they cannot deliver. I enjoy other sims.  :thumbsup
Ssnake has said that the new terrain engine will be free. But considering that the new terrain engine had to be delayed and carried over to 4.1, I don't think he'll keep his word. I know he's also said that "A contract is a contract is a contract, period. (If I promise to the general public that we will deliver a new terrain engine, free of charge, to all customers of the 4.0 version, that actually is a contract too; it's just that there's no deadline tied to it (and no late delivery penalty payment).)" But I still don't think he'll keep his word.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #221 on: May 18, 2018, 06:54:30 PM »
FSKRipper has a correction to Kev2go, sorry I didn't post this before: http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-181914
Quote from: FSKRipper
Quote from: Kev2go
NO actually. dont recall any content being promised in 2 weeks by ED and being overdue by 3 years.
If you would think twice you would remember the famous Nevada terrain which should be released short after the A-10C standalone...
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #222 on: May 18, 2018, 11:38:11 PM »
Kev2go responds to the above: http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-182009
Quote from: Kev2go
IF you would think twice remember that They never said 2 weeks.... And they "delayed" it for good reason. To Upgrade the Game engine  which would have been far more overdue if they opted to do it later( which was paid off TBH despite the long development time. look at 1.5/2.0 and the recent 2.5  Merge release). and started Nevada map from scratch in a  much more Hi res Model and much more representative of Vegas


Something you seem to forget. quite a selective memory. But then again this is why ED has stopped promsing anything and not sharing as much with regards to development process,  people like you who complain any time a perceived deadline is missed ( again there wasnt a specfic release date noted anyhow)

He also responds to Ssnake's long post: http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-182010
Quote from: Kev2go
Its alright I understand not giving deadlines.  Sadly like the aforementioned ED example some people  will mercilessly complain any time a "perceived" deadline is missed, Hold that grudge against a "perceived broken promise"  even If there was a good explanation for why new content isnt released yet. SUch people will continue to bring up  as Ad hominum  argument for forum discussions for other content that is announced for development.

ON the other hand some community memberss will complain if there is no transparency or News  of progress re Development Cycle. So really you cant win :/

Guess you have to go for something in between. Personally i appreciate you taking the time to explain things and reassuring us things are being worked on.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #223 on: May 20, 2018, 06:40:55 PM »
https://www.steelbeasts.org/showthread.php?8338-Neue-Gel%E4nde-Engine&p=58692&viewfull=1#post58692
Translated using Google Translate:
Quote from: Ssnake
All in all, I am actually quite satisfied with the current situation. However, we want to bring the frame rates to the level of version 3.x, and we still have to do a "correct" beta test. The first one will be tackled in the coming months. When we find the time to do a beta test is still unclear. Beta testing binds a significant portion of programmers and is thus in direct competition with orders for which we make contractual commitments. Naturally, such works have priority. In this respect, beta testing depends on the order situation, which is very difficult to predict.
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Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #224 on: May 20, 2018, 07:02:23 PM »
 :lol

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