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Author Topic: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine  (Read 61793 times)

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Offline Lumituisku

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2017, 02:04:05 PM »
Yeah albeit I kind of feel that this is almost like some early funding program than actual reality.

Like​ it will take a long time before we will see it.


I truly hope they will improve unit behavior to match new terrain. That leopard at the end seemed to bee way too exposed in case it was AI.

Pain is the nature of life. it is the recognition that I'm nothing more. - Mark Rowland's

Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2017, 04:23:44 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11505-itec-2017-rotterdam/?page=2#comment-171908
Quote from: Ssnake
Yes... we also have a homepage. ;)

The video isn't listed on YouTube because I don't want to create the impression that the terrain you see in it is what you'll get with the new engine. We received the terrain data for experimentation purposes. We may show it, we just can't include it in the Steel Beasts distribution. One day LIDAR scan data will be freely available I suppose. Until then we're stuck with what we currently have.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11505-itec-2017-rotterdam/?page=3#comment-171912
Quote from: Ssnake
Again: We can't include that terrain in SB Pro PE.

The new terrain engine will make old terrain data look a bit better than the current one, but we have no permission to use (nor the money to buy) high-res LIDAR scans.
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Offline Frankie

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2017, 05:01:00 PM »
Can't wait for 2018.

After the Dogs of War are let slip, let us smoke the Pipes Of Peace.

Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2017, 05:38:35 PM »
Can't wait for 2018.
The new terrain engine is still on schedule for July 2017 (as per the 4.019 release notes), because Ssnake hasn't said anything about delays.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2017, 05:14:40 AM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=3#comment-172157
Quote from: Ssnake
Now, LIDAR data also use huge amounts of disk space and don't compress well. So, our plan is to convert all the stock maps in Steel Beasts for you (and maybe add one or two new maps), and to offer these data as a separate installer. Which also means that - maybe not right away, that is undecided yet - in the future you may install the map files anywhere, not just in C:\ProgramData, which is a concern for those with a smaller SSD for the C: drive. Because the data will be larger than what you're used to, our plan is to put all the converted maps on a DVD set that you can order from our web shop, so you don't have to download all these rather large files. It also means that future versions of SB Pro will have much smaller installers to download, as we will separate the maps from the rest of the program forever; they may therefore also follow a separate update cycle.

My intent is to offer the DVD set as a bundle with the next iteration of the printed manual. It's about time that we have one produced. In order to get a high quality label printed on the DVDs we need to order a certain minimum quantity; chances are that we may deviate from our habits and make these bundles available for preorder. This is probably still a few weeks away, though.
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Offline Frankie

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2017, 05:48:57 AM »
Someone should write an optimizing routine to compress the LIDAR terrain data to a higher compression level.

Who knows? technology changes so much. Look at how MP3 revolutionised the audio data world by compressing music files and yet allowing clear quality. And yet now they say that "MP3 is dead!". Most state-of-the-art media services such as streaming or TV and radio broadcasting use modern ISO-MPEG codecs such as the AAC family or in the future MPEG-H.

So maybe some computer scientist/university student intern should seriously look into this "Optimise LIDAR" project. Otherwise, we will have to buy a DVD for each terrain that we want to use, from the eSimgames' 'DVD set'. Just guessing. I hope I am wrong about the multiple DVDs.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 06:32:01 AM by Frankie »

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Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2017, 12:32:55 PM »

So maybe some computer scientist/university student intern should seriously look into this "Optimise LIDAR" project. Otherwise, we will have to buy a DVD for each terrain that we want to use, from the eSimgames' 'DVD set'. Just guessing. I hope I am wrong about the multiple DVDs.

They did not say that a download would not be available. Also a USB stick would be better for something like this. Many people do not have a DVD drive on their pc any more.

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2017, 05:01:14 PM »
Someone should write an optimizing routine to compress the LIDAR terrain data to a higher compression level.

Who knows? technology changes so much. Look at how MP3 revolutionised the audio data world by compressing music files and yet allowing clear quality. And yet now they say that "MP3 is dead!". Most state-of-the-art media services such as streaming or TV and radio broadcasting use modern ISO-MPEG codecs such as the AAC family or in the future MPEG-H.

So maybe some computer scientist/university student intern should seriously look into this "Optimise LIDAR" project. Otherwise, we will have to buy a DVD for each terrain that we want to use, from the eSimgames' 'DVD set'. Just guessing. I hope I am wrong about the multiple DVDs.
Ssnake didn't say we would need 1 DVD for each terrain map. About MP3: while the owner of the MP3 patents let all of its patents expire, and it's being superseded, it's still not dead.

As for LIDAR data compression, it's already been done:
http://www.laszip.org/
https://www.lizardtech.com/lidar-compressor/overview

They did not say that a download would not be available. Also a USB stick would be better for something like this. Many people do not have a DVD drive on their pc any more.
I agree. 32 GB and 64 GB USB sticks aren't that expensive, though they are still more expensive per GB than DVDs ordered in bulk. And they're quicker. A DVD drive at its usual maximum of 16x will only hit 22.16 MB/s, compared to USB 2.0's 35 MB/s maximum. Let alone USB 3.0.
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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2017, 07:25:24 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11591-is-it-possible-to-make-curved-roads-and-highways/#comment-172344
Quote from: Ssnake
The next update with the new terrain engine will allow to apply spline smoothing to roads, and to evelate and to flatten them. This will give you a number of new options to build your roads.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2017, 08:16:08 PM »
That is good news  :thumbsup

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Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2017, 03:10:34 AM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=3#comment-173018
Quote from: Ssnake
Over time there will be.

The main purpose of the new terrain engine is to replace the existing technology with a new one that

  • does what the old did, for backwards compatibility reasons, and
  • provides the foundation for new capabilities - which will be added over time

So, the amount of changes won't be dramatic, but there will be a few things - for example, the ability to level roads, which is a big improvement in moutaineous terrain, or the ability to build ramps (which lets you create overpasses). Procedural embellishment can however only do so much. Where the original data doesn't exist there is no magic wand to generate it. A map built from 30m grid data - still the standard for most maps in Steel Beasts - simply cannot provide the richness of small depressions and other places to hide a tank which are available in abundancy in most places (the Utah salt flats being a well-known exception).
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Offline Asid

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »
Your updates are appreciated Rinix  :thumbsup

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Offline Lumituisku

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2017, 04:16:09 PM »
Your updates are appreciated Rinix  :thumbsup

I agree 100%.

Without Rinix effort, I wouldn't know at all how the progress is going.

Pain is the nature of life. it is the recognition that I'm nothing more. - Mark Rowland's

Offline Rinix

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2017, 04:40:31 PM »
Your updates are appreciated Rinix  :thumbsup
Your updates are appreciated Rinix  :thumbsup

I agree 100%.

Without Rinix effort, I wouldn't know at all how the progress is going.
Thanks guys. :)

One thing Ssnake said in the previous quote is bothering me:
Quote from: Ssnake
A map built from 30m grid data - still the standard for most maps in Steel Beasts - simply cannot provide the richness of small depressions and other places to hide a tank which are available in abundancy in most places (the Utah salt flats being a well-known exception).
SB's current maximum terrain resolution is 12.5 meters. So most maps in SB will not benefit from the new terrain engine unless the maps themselves become available in higher resolutions
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Lumituisku

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Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2017, 02:08:27 AM »
Yeah... So basically after getting new engine we have to wait for... Either map creators or armies to have interest that we will get new maps.  :(

Pain is the nature of life. it is the recognition that I'm nothing more. - Mark Rowland's

 

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