True Multi-Crew

[Asid]

True Multi-Crew

We do a fair bit of multi-crew in our missions. This is when we have a human T.C. and a human gunner. With some training this works really well. How about the driver? Why not a human driver more often?

We have used human drivers and had 3 players in a tank on many occasions. Do not be mistaken in thinking the driver position is not important or that it is dull and boring. There is not a shortage of drivers within our group either.

These are some of the benefits I can think of:
•   A fully crewed tank is more immersive.
•   Less likely to fall victim of questionable A.I. (scripting) decisions.
•   Allow new players a position they might feel more comfortable with.
•   Allow players with fps issues to participate more (in theory).

A fully crewed tank would require training so that the 3 crew members work effectively together.

I would like this more often if possible.

Regards

[Beef]

I agree with Asid in that a fully crewed vehicle is more immersive. I would definitely participate in such missions as the driver of any tank or PC.

[Lumituisku]

I would as well love to play as driver and give my best effort for other grew to gain benefits of having me as driver.

[Renders]

yeah, i'll drive too if required

[Cougar11]

Yes that would make it more immersive. Do not think the driver is an easy position. As a driver you are responsible for many things, and need to do them without direction.

Drivers must do all the following.

During movement drive at different speeds depending on the terrain, location, tactic, position within the platoon, actions, and others.
Following direction given on where to go with out micro-managing the driver and so they can focus on fighting the tank.
Pulling into hull down, turret down, and hide positions.
Knowing when to pull up, and back down during engagements.
Location good locations for battle positions, and avenues to move to and through.
additional eyes and ears.
Not requiring the other crew members to wait or give additional direction taking away from shooting.

This can be very detrimental to the tank crew if the drive is not able to perform these tasks as it will leave the tank exposed just like the AI does at times, and taking away focus of commander or gunner from killing targets, and not allowing first round advantage, and possible wasted rounds due to not being all the way up in a position, or violent moves throwing lead off of the shots.

Just my 2 cents.

[Lumituisku]

Yep, but it should not be doomed either as impossible. It makes it more immersive since as we can see from your post it is important and demanding role to play.

Also...  I think that driver position should be especially taken into consideration on places of leopard 2:s   especially 2A5;s  and CV90 series. At the start. On others it would require more from driver and commander in form of training and experience, as field of view is much more limited, unless head pops out what is not that immersive but makes it still possible.

"Location good locations for battle positions, and avenues to move to and through."  - It's difficult especially if new desired location would be at the side not far away. As diver doesn't see to sides. But if tank has been on area, then driver should have good idea where to place tank to have good hull downs and it could happen swiftly.

I have feeling that in that not only driver has to be skillful to pick good place, and grew to have tactics working for it to be safe. but as well commander to trust driver... not to be micromanaging all the time.



I actually have plenty of driving videos from my, renders and colebrooks missions that we played together. Unfortunately, most of those don't have my voice as my settings were wrong at the time of played. As I tried to get rid of that Darthwader breathing that you most of the time hear on my recordings. >.<


And to add here one more thing...

Communication. Since this SIM lack things from drivers place, driver doesn't have way to know when tank is hide, turret down, or hulldown positions.. unless somehow told to. 

If we can set coms to work... then I don't see big problems doing this.


PS... CV90... driver can see what cunner, commander or barrel see from IVIS monitor.    and  rear view camera, on leos and CV:s is nice thing too.

[Lumituisku]

Don't judge. It was our first time doing with driver there too.
CV9030 from drivers place.
 


Not exatly first time... but still much to work with comms  (this one has my mic disabled by accident)
Leopard 2E from drivers place.
 

[Durham]

The CV90 video is priceless!!

Durham

[Lumituisku]

What is so special on that one Durham? Noods trying to deal with IFV they haven't played before, on very challenging map where enemy roams all around.

Also I think this discussion have been forgotten already.. I mean main subject.

True Multi-Crew

We do a fair bit of multi-crew in our missions. This is when we have a human T.C. and a human gunner. With some training this works really well. How about the driver? Why not a human driver more often?

We have used human drivers and had 3 players in a tank on many occasions. Do not be mistaken in thinking the driver position is not important or that it is dull and boring. There is not a shortage of drivers within our group either.

These are some of the benefits I can think of:
•   A fully crewed tank is more immersive.
•   Less likely to fall victim of questionable A.I. (scripting) decisions.
•   Allow new players a position they might feel more comfortable with.
•   Allow players with fps issues to participate more (in theory).

A fully crewed tank would require training so that the 3 crew members work effectively together.

I would like this more often if possible.

Regards

So makes me wonder... those who have tried with driver already... experiences? and those who want to try, what are you looking for as yourself.

[Asid]

So makes me wonder... those who have tried with driver already... experiences? and those who want to try, what are you looking for as yourself.

I have tried as a driver. Some vehicles are better than others for this. The rear view camera is great for reversing (damn trees!). Using the "Q" button to let driver pop his head out the hatch made it a bit easier and more immersive. Remember to close the hatch when the firing starts!!!!

Great video Lumi.

[Lumituisku]

Yeah. ^^

Yesterday I was driving with M1, Assasin as my commander and it worked pretty nicely.

M1 even when its driver position is basic one, wasn't that bad, I actually liked it. In the end it comes to point that driver is not supposed to see more than to avoid obstacles in front and rest is trust to commander.    I found it helping that I learned tactics that my commanders like to use, so it was easy to follow orders and act more fast as I guessed what they wanted to do, in what situation there was.

So yeah, if anyone of you have thought to try drivers place, go on and try. I do warmly recommend it. Its not as easy and sexy as other positions but it truly is much. To be control of tanks actual movement, placing, and swiftness.

And it truly... to me feels like it adds that last factor to team inside tank. Making it even better team play than just with gunner and commander.

[Renders]

I was terribly impressed of how best results comes out from a fully crewed tanks.
Most important things I've reported about having a full crew:
1) you know people, and the more you practice, the more you learn about them, (this one alone is enough fullfilment for me from a game )
2) you will fully understand and will become VERY good in your stations in just few months, because you will level your tecnical knowledge to the best player in your tank, and usually VCs & TCs are very skilled persons.
(e.g. yesterday night in a pretty difficult scenario, i've got 7 kills with 90% hit ratio and 7.9s time to target. this is not only because i'm better, but because in our team we are becoming fully cooperative, and so driver knows exactly what commander wants and when gunner's barrel will be out of the ground, gunner knows procedures very well and will help commander to focus on situational awarenes more than scanning around, and tc will say "gunner sabot tank!" and in less of 9 secs you will be able to hit that target in the right place in the right moment, and possibly, one shoot one kill, while driver will bring you out of LOF when reloading, or will look for a retreat route without killing any members into trees.
3)Comms are A LOT OF FUN, seeing the thing work perfectly and have a clear concise comm with you tc and driver is actualy very very funny and immersive in my opinion.

Basically: I'm training as a  commander, I'm perfectioning my gunner skills, that thanks to my guys it's become perfectly high, and i also love to drive sometimes to have a complete knowledge of my gun truck (even if - believe that or not - driving it's still hard to me, on driver depends the life of the tank itself. (p.s. driving position in leo2's it's very detailed and the rear view camera allows you to make a lot of rambo moves in backup gear, so as it's exciting in the cv-90 cuz you can have the gunners sight under your eyes and find a better hull down/turret down pos)
Always speaking for me, i'm available to be a driver if needed, and it's not a second choice!

So if you're interested in doing the things as close as possible as RL, join our multi crew group (training almost always when time permits) and think about every position.