Forum > Theater of Operations: World at War
Counterattack at Belle Fontaine
Christian Knudsen:
Ok - now we are caught up!
So thinking about it, I think I will do the following:
Each attacker dedicated battery used in a single OBA module will come with one free pre-registered hex which may be used only by that module. The attacker may use a barrage or creeping barrage as per E12. An attacker module with a pre-registered hex never receives an additional black chit per C1.73. Since only dedicated batteries in TO may fire in support of an attack, more than one battery must share a single pre-registered hex in order to go together as a module as per the TO OBA rules. (EX: The attacking German has three dedicated batteries of 105mm medium artillery in support. He thus receives one module with plentiful ammo and one pre-registered hex, usable only for that module.)
For the defender, it is possible to have non-dedicated modules firing in support. These never receive pre-registered hexes. Dedicated supporting modules are treated as a separate category, and are awarded pre-registered hexes depending on the defending unit's posture, with units in an exposed or hasty defensive posture receiving none, units in a prepared posture getting one per module, and units in a fortified posture receiving two per module. Defender pre-registered OBA also does not receive the C1.73 black chit bonus, and modules may never share use of another module's pre-registered hex. (EX: A defending American unit receives support from 5 batteries of 105mm artillery, of which two are dedicated, and 1 battery of dedicated 81mm mortars. The unit is in a prepared posture. It will receive 1 module of normal ammo 100+ OBA with one pre-registered hex, 1 battery of plentiful 100+ artillery with no pre-registered hex, and 1 scarce battery of 81mm OBA with a preregistered hex.)
tl;dr? Basically modules still have to go together by type in order to limit the amount of OBA on the battlefield. Pre-registered hexes will be common, but are limited in that they can't be shared between modules. Limits imposed by the time it takes to get "dedicated" support, and to dig in and get a better defensive posture, should make OBA a major but hopefully not overpowering factor on the battlefield.
One thing slightly worries me, however, and that is how to integrate non-dedicated supporting batteries. You mentioned that the Amis would have been eligible for more support if required. But this sort of pre-supposes that the battle is fought by TO before I resolve it in ASL! Really, the American side here should have access to absolutely everything that COULD provide it fire support, taking into account cohesion, etc. Whether the American player chooses to use all of it is another question, but they should have the option. So how do we then stop them from doing so, and making the tactical resolutions nothing but massive OBA-fests? I can think of a couple ways.
1. Make the penalty for use of non-dedicated support pretty hefty in TO somehow, so that the player is a little leery about using it (and general support in general). Whether this be an extra cohesion and/or supply hit is another question.
2. Make general support be less likely/effective in tactical resolution terms. In ASL we can do this by playing with the chit draw pile, so that it is less likely that it makes an appearance.
Any other ideas?
choppinlt:
OK, I will take your word for it on a lot of this ASL stuff! ;)
So yes, in ToO attackers will only receive arty support from dedicated batteries. Defenders can receive from any eligible batteries, however there are many factors that weigh in when deciding if a battery will respond to a fire support request.
To your question, it is important to know that fire mission requests (FMR's) are established before a battle commences. Said differently, when a battle starts all artillery support has been determined for that engagement. This is important when establishing an OOB for the engagement. In the case of this scenario the Amis already have all the artillery they need (and more) already dedicated to that unit, so it doesn't go any further. But we can take this case a step further by assuming that the German attack is far more severe and the dedicated arty is not enough according to the battle algorithms. The Ami Bn would be eligible to receive additional support from direct and general assets too, but again this is all established pre-engagement. Make sense?
Furthermore, I want to add that there is a Registration Fire Mission that can be assigned to arty batteries. This helps to link a battery with a unit in defense, without making it 'dedicated'. So completing this FM will increase the likelihood a battery will respond if available. It is also assumed that the defending unit will receive some TRP's in CM or preregistration in ASL. OTOH, creating the registration point has some risks like counterbattery fire, or otherwise giving your position away. And registration takes time, meaning the battery is unavailable to pound on the enemy if needed. Lastly, if the unit with the registration or the artillery unit move the registration is lost.
Then there is the impact of unit posture. Units in a prepared for fortified posture are also assumed to have some registration points as well as we have previously mentioned. Does all this help?
Christian Knudsen:
Ok. I think I am going to keep it the way it is at the moment, although I am toying with the idea of requiring attackers to pre-plan their pre-registered fires. That really complicates things, however, because then I have to figure out how to treat the module outside of the planned fire, ie. is that module available for fires before/after the planned fire, and what will that look like. And since I'm not allowing off-board observers, which make pre-registered hexes really ridiculous, the attacker is still going to have to get to where he can see the hex to make use of it, which I think will mitigate the effect a bit.
Defender pre-reg. Sheesh, I'm torn here. I know that historically, we should have a ton of pre-registered hexes/TRPs for the defender. But where do we hit the point at which it becomes overpowering and makes the tactical resolution no fun for the attacker? Right now your system, if I understand it correctly, units get TRPs from dedicated units, from registered units, and from the posture if applicable. That's a ton of TRPs, especially considering CM (and ASL, though I can work around it) offers no way to exclude batteries from TRPs - what's there is available to all. So considering the amount of batteries on call, and the amount of TRPs available, I worry that artillery will have a massive effect on the engagement.
Now in CM this is ameliorated somewhat by the fact that batteries run out of ammo. This does not happen in ASL at all, instead it's randomized. A module might never fire, as it's radio malfunctions, or it fails two battery access chit draws. Or it can fire mission after mission, putting rounds down in just about every fire phase of every turn with a bit of luck.
So for defender fires I think I am only going to allow pre-registered hexes to dedicated batteries firing in support of prepared or fortified units. Registration fires will be (for ASL purposes), a TO-only thing, allowing the defender an increased chance of getting a battery's (non-dedicated) support. So for this battle, the Germans will get 3 OBA modules, 2 with scarce and 1 with plentiful ammo. Each module will have access to 1 pre-registered hex. The Americans also have 3 modules, 2 with normal and 1 with scarce ammo, with no pre-registered hexes. Note that this is still a lot of OBA for both sides, and the Americans can make life very uncomfortable for the Germans with it, it just won't be as devastating as having pre-registered hexes would be.
We will see how it goes!
choppinlt:
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how it comes together for ASL. After all, if it doesn't quite right then it can be tweaked! ;D
Going back a few posts ago, you will note that I mentioned no number greater than 3 for TRP's. In fact I was thinking about a max of 4 under any circumstance for CM battles. Just to clarify, a Registration FM will allow a unit to get a TRP that may not otherwise have one. E.g. Hasty unit posture. Or units that gain them due to posture may get an extra TRP. Limiting TRP's is for the exact reason you are talking about. Getting a good balance is key, because on one hand you know that artillery can be a critical factor that is the difference between victory or defeat. OTOH, you don't want tactical battles to strictly turn in to planning the next fire mission. For CM I am less concerned about the number of batteries available and more concerned with the TRP's because of how they work.
Christian Knudsen:
Ok, I am a bit confused as to how support and pre-reg works. Does a dedicated support battery automatically get pre-registration, or is pre-registration pretty much solely dependent on whether a battery has fired a registration mission for a given defending unit?
Right now I am assuming that dedicated = registered, but if this is not the case (and dedicated is more of a command/control thing), it actually makes my life quite a bit easier, as pre-registration will be solely dependent on whether a registration mission has been completed, and then bonus pre-reg hexes would be awarded for the posture level, as you were planning.
I would lean toward 1 hex/battery for hasty and prepared, and 2 for fortified, just to try and keep the numbers down.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page