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Offline Biondo

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Waterloo Campaign Rules
« on: December 02, 2021, 10:17:39 PM »
Here's the link to the last version of the rules for this campaign


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zt36_Jgu8_2zCTDGEwLKiJPskmGJjEs4/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=105859020473343184291&rtpof=true&sd=true


We can discuss here modifications or clarifications and keep informed about any update  :howdy
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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2021, 07:33:38 AM »
There are a couple of changes we could made. All are in the Special Orders chapter.

I paste the old version and a possible new one with changes highlighted.


Old Version

Special Orders

The CiC can assign to each unit three Special Orders:

- Scout: the unit with this order stops its movement as soon as an enemy unit enters its field of view

- Sound of guns: the unit stops its movement as soon as it enters (or if itís already into) within the range of a battle

- Retreat: the unit stops his movement as soon as it sees an enemy in front and uses its remaining movements to move back towards its starting position (but not further back).



New Version

Special Orders

The CiC can assign to each unit four Special Orders:

- Scout: the unit with this order stops its movement as soon as an enemy unit enters its field of view

- Sound of guns: the unit uses all of its remaining Movement Points to march the closer possible to a battle as soon as it enters (or if itís already into) within the range of a battle

- Retreat (it has also to be assigned a Retreat Point towards a town): if an enemy unit enter your unit's visibility radius, both because your unit is moving towards the enemy or viceversa, your unit stops his movement, if was moving, and starts a retreat towards the Retreat Point you set. Infantry dižvisions can move 1 hex back while cavalry divisions and Corps can move 2 hexes back. A d6 dice roll will determine if the retreat happens or not (1-2: no retreat; 3-6: retreat happens) 

-Cautious movement: issuing this order prevent the unit to move through any other friendly unit. This is useful if you want to keep a unit in front of all the others (for example a cavalry unit for scouting or a Corps instead of a division if you are going to contact an enemy) or simply don't want to mix and create disorder to an ally by putting your units into his columns


What do you think guys?
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Offline neilnilly

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2021, 09:59:25 AM »
ok for me
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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 06:51:51 AM »
There was a question about how many divisions can be put into a single Corps so we need to put in a small rule, highlighted in the proposed new version (Units chapter):


Old Version

Units

The base unit for the campaign is the Army Corps. On the map it occupies an entire hexagon. It is not possible to have multiple Corps stationed on the same hexagon (apart at the end of a battle).
Itís possible to detach divisions from a Corps. These units will act independently and follow the same rules as the Corps. Itís possible to reattach at their Corps or to any other Corps.


New Version

Units

The base unit for the campaign is the Army Corps. On the map it occupies an entire hexagon. It is not possible to have multiple Corps stationed on the same hexagon (apart at the end of a battle).
Itís possible to detach divisions from a Corps. These units will act independently and follow the same rules as the Corps. Itís possible to reattach at their Corps or to any other Corps if the Corps which is receiving the new divisions will not end with more than 8 divisions.

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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2021, 08:52:36 AM »
More on the Special Order subject, in this case about Scout. With the current Special Order, the unit with a Scout order will stop as soon as an enemy enter its field of view. The problem arise if the enemy, after its movement, exit from the radius of the scouting unit because the latter can only report that it saw an enemy but without any possibility to gather more information.

Another problem could be that the enemy is moving towards the scouting unit, make contact and then an unwelcome battle core is generated. But this of course is not the role of a scouting unit.

I also made a small change to the proposal for the Retreat Special Order which has to take in account the Movement Points limit to not give the possibility to move more than allowed.

So here's the proposal to improve these points in the Special Orders chapter, as always I put the old version and the new proposed adding also the stuff about retreat and sound to the guns, just to have the big picture:




Old Version

Special Orders

The CiC can assign to each unit three Special Orders:

- Scout: the unit with this order stops its movement as soon as an enemy unit enters its field of view

- Sound of guns: the unit stops its movement as soon as it enters (or if itís already into) within the range of a battle

- Retreat: the unit stops his movement as soon as it sees an enemy in front and uses its remaining movements to move back towards its starting position (but not further back).



New Version

Special Orders

The CiC can assign to each unit four Special Orders:

- Scout (can be assigned only to cavalry and infantry divisions): the division with this order stops its movement as soon as an enemy unit enters its field of view and automatically try to keep at least 2 hexes*of distance from any enemy, according to its Movement Points limit.

(*2 hexes seems a good compromise to have the possibility that an enemy would not go out of range of the scouting unit if he still have some movement points, and not be to close in the case in the next turn the enemy has a better Initiative and can immediately make contact with the scouting unit)


- Sound of guns: the unit uses all of its remaining Movement Points to march the closer possible to a battle as soon as it enters (or if itís already into) within the range of a battle

- Retreat (it has also to be assigned a Retreat Point towards a town): if an enemy unit enter your unit's visibility radius, both because your unit is moving towards the enemy or viceversa, your unit stops his movement, if was moving, and starts a retreat towards the Retreat Point you set. Infantry divisions can move 1 hex back while cavalry divisions and Corps can move 2 hexes back, according to the Movement Points left. A d6 dice roll will determine if the retreat happens or not (1-2: no retreat; 3-6: retreat happens) 

-Cautious movement: issuing this order prevent the unit to move through any other friendly unit. This is useful if you want to keep a unit in front of all the others (for example a cavalry unit for scouting or a Corps instead of a division if you are going to contact an enemy) or simply don't want to mix and create disorder to an ally by putting your units into his columns




The Scout Special Order written in this way will prevent in many case the possibility of an unwanted battle but there are still some possibilities that this happens, if, for example, a second enemy unit cut out the scouting unit from a secondary road while the latter was moving forward to keep contact with a retreating enemy. But these are the uncertainties of the war ;)

I propose to limit the Scout Special order to cavalry and infantry divisions only, because this sort of fast reorganization to move back or forward could be easily performed only by small units. For the Corps, the Retreat Special Order should be the only way to perform a retreat movement if in danger because of the bigger organization issues that can arise.



And now, as anticipated, the clarification about reattachments and detachments:

Old Version

Marching Orders
The three CiCs fill out the Marching Order for their Corps and detached divisions; the order in which they will be written will be the exact order in which they will be executed. It must also noted if a unit has a Special Order for that turn and the detachment or reattachment of a division. To be reattached, a division must move on the exact spot of his assigned Corps. If, for every reason, this not happens, the division it will be considered still detached.


New Version
Marching Orders
The three CiCs fill out the Marching Order for their Corps and detached divisions; the order in which they will be written will be the exact order in which they will be executed. It must also noted if a unit has a Special Order for that turn and the detachment or reattachment of a division.
To be reattached, a division must move on the exact spot of his assigned Corps. If, for every reason, this not happens, the division will be considered still detached. The Corps that has received a detachment, lose the ability to move for that turn.
To detach a division, it will be checked if that division still has Movement Points and if it's able to reach a valid spot (empty hex). In the case the detachment is ordered at the end of a move, the division will be placed behind the parent Corps, if there's a valid spot to occupy, also if the detached unit still has some Movement Points to use.
If the conditions to reattach or detach divisions are not met, then the order will not be completed.


If someone has ideas on how to integrate or change this, just write here :thumbsup :howdy

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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2021, 06:25:06 PM »
New proposals and some refinement on the way.

The first one is about units reattachments. Basically is to give the possibility to attach divisions to a corps while the latter is moving on their hexes at the condition that the divisions have no marching orders for that turn and of course all the other conditions are met (no more than 8 divisions and not exceed the Movement points a corps has). So the rule will be like this

Old Version
Marching Orders
The three CiCs fill out the Marching Order for their Corps and detached divisions; the order in which they will be written will be the exact order in which they will be executed. It must also noted if a unit has a Special Order for that turn and the detachment or reattachment of a division.
To be reattached, a division must move on the exact spot of his assigned Corps. If, for every reason, this not happens, the division will be considered still detached. The Corps that has received a detachment, lose the ability to move for that turn.
To detach a division, it will be checked if that division still has Movement Points and if it's able to reach a valid spot (empty hex). In the case the detachment is ordered at the end of a move, the division will be placed behind the parent Corps, if there's a valid spot to occupy, also if the detached unit still has some Movement Points to use.
If the conditions to reattach or detach divisions are not met, then the order will not be completed.


New Version
Marching Orders
The three CiCs fill out the Marching Order for their Corps and detached divisions; the order in which they will be written will be the exact order in which they will be executed. It must also noted if a unit has a Special Order for that turn and the detachment or reattachment of a division.
To be reattached, a division must move on the exact spot of his assigned Corps. If, for every reason, this not happens, the division will be considered still detached. The Corps that has received a detachment, lose the ability to move for that turn.

A Corps can also pick up division while marching through occupied hex at the condition that the divisions had no Marching or Special Orders for that turn.

To detach a division, it will be checked if that division still has Movement Points and if it's able to reach a valid spot (empty hex). In the case the detachment is ordered at the end of a move, the division will be placed behind the parent Corps, if there's a valid spot to occupy, also if the detached unit still has some Movement Points to use.
If the conditions to reattach or detach divisions are not met, then the order will not be completed.


********************************

Now a new Special Order that add something interesting to the gameplay

Forced March

If Forced March order is issued to a unit, an additional Movement Point is added to that unit.

A unit can receive Forced March order for two consecutive turns and no more.

As consequence, that unit has one Movement Point less for every turn with a Forced March order, to be subtracted in the successive turns.

Example 1 (Corps movement):

Turn 1  Forced march: 3+1=4 MP

Turn 2  Forced march: 3+1=4 MP

Turn 3  Normal March: 3-1=2 MP

Turn 4  Normal March: 3-1=2 MP

Turn 5  Normal March: 3 MP



Example 2 (Corps movement)

Turn 1  Forced march: 3+1=4 MP

Turn 2  Normal March: 3-1=2 MP

Turn 3  Forced march: 3+1=4 MP

Turn 4  Normal March: 3-1=2 MP

Turn 5  Normal March: 3 MP


A unit that had a Forced March order and is involved in a battle, suffers some delay:

Corps starts with one division less for every Forced March order accumulated.

Divisions starts with one brigade less for every Forced March order accumulated.

Anyway both units will start the battle with at least a division, in the case of a Corps, or a brigade, in the case of a division


If a unit, that had Forced March order, join another unit, then the latter will not inherit the bonus in Movement Points.

Conversely, if a unit, that had Forced March to dispose, join another unit, then the latter inherit the limitation in Movement Points.




Tell me if everything is clear, or something to add :howdy
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Offline asalex

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2021, 03:13:32 PM »
Hi Biondo,

A Couple of questions about battle start and involvement:

1) Only adjacent corps start a battle, two adjacent divisions or a corps adjacent to a division don't, right?

2) Would force I participate in battle A?

And what if the river had been a major one?

Season greetings!
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Offline General Sandman

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM »
Hi Biondo,

A Couple of questions about battle start and involvement:

1) Only adjacent corps start a battle, two adjacent divisions or a corps adjacent to a division don't, right?

2) Would force I participate in battle A?

And what if the river had been a major one?

Season greetings!


Although it wasnt me who had been adressed, let me reply my personal interpretation of the present rules:


1) Only adjacent corps start a battle, two adjacent divisions or a corps adjacent to a division don't, right?

The rule is:

If during the movement a unit comes into contact with an enemy unit (adjacent hexagons, not
necessarily on the same road), the latter loses the ability to move and the first battle core arises.


Conclusion: A unit is the general description for all kind of legal formations; here > corps and divisions. So a battle-core arises if two hostile formations meet on the strategical map in 2 adjoining hexes, no matter what kind of units they are.
So my answer is "No".


2) Would force I participate in battle A?
And what if the river had been a major one?


The corresponding rule is:

All of the following units that will complete their movement within 2 hexagons of the battle core
(counting from BOTH units that comprise it) will be considered involved in that specific battle.


Conclusion: If "A" is one of the 2 battle-core-hexes, then "I" will be involved (if not the exeption option applies) into the battle, cos the distance to the core is not more than 2 hexes.
I have not any knowledge of rules about the impact of a major river regarding the battle-participation. So yes, it will join the battle, but probably with a bigger delay due distance and obstacle conditions.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 05:55:52 PM by General Sandman »
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Who we were

ďWe were the ones who knew but did not understand, well informed but without insight, overloaded with factual data but poor in experience and wisdom. So we went, not stopped by ourselves."

Based on Roger Willemsen R.I.P.

Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2021, 05:00:26 PM »
Hi Asalex :howdy

Force I will participates in the battle because is at 2 hexes distance from the battle core: road distance doesn't matter, hex distance do.

Of course, Force I will have some delay because is really far, so, to say, if battle starts at 8, force I will join most probably at 11 or so. As Master I will take in account many factors such weather, forced marches, various delays, river crossing, etc...

I still not have a fixed rule to calculate this delay, I don't know if it should a fixed rule or if the master should have more freedom to have more uncertainties.

If you have suggestions, they're really welcomed :)

EDIT: sandman explained it better than me....
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Offline asalex

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2021, 08:18:08 PM »
Clear,

Thanks both of you, the rule in v2 talks about units not corps so no ambiguity.

Some variable delay, considering distance and intermediate terrain (and weather). Could be a lot of factors so its better if you modify it depending on the situation. Maybe something like 1d6 x 10 min each hex, with another die or a modifier if difficult terrain or no roads....
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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 09:47:32 AM »
There's a proposal for a way to resolve battles when odds are unbalanced. Playing a multiplayer battle in this situation could be quite boring so the rules should give a possibility to quickly decide this kind of battle.

Here it is, for the moment very simple, but of course we can refine it:

Quick Battle

When a battle core is created and the ratio of all the troops involved is more than 3:1, then the weaker side can decide to solve the battle using the Quick Battle rule.

Then, counting only the ratio of the forces in contact with the unit that is part of the battle core, the Master will roll a d12 dice to determine if and how many casualties the escaping side take while trying to go out of the battle. The worse the ratio, the higher the probability of being destroyed. The better the ratio, the higher the probability to escape without any damage.

The different ratio and probability are:


-1:1 or less (the escaping unit has same or more troops than the attacker)

1-9: no casualties

10-12: 2% casualties


- from 1:1 to 2:1

1-6: no casualties
7-9: 2% casualties
10-12: 5% casualties


- from 2:1 to 3:1

1-4: no casualties
5-6: 2%
7-9: 5%
10-11: 10%
12: unit captured


- from 3:1 to 4:1

1-2: no casualties
3-4: 5%
5-6: 10%
7-8: 15%
9-10: 20%
11-12: unit captured


- from 4:1 to 5:1

1: no casualties
2-3: 5%
4-5: 10%
5-6: 15%
7-8: 20%
9-12: unit captured


- more than 5:1

1-2: 10%
3-4: 15%
5-6: 20%
7-12: unit captured

After the battle is resolved, the escaping side retreat all the unit involved in the battle radius by 2 hexes and can move in the next turn



Making some example, if a corps of 20,000 men meet an infantry division of 6,000 men, the side with fewer men can choose to quickly solve the battle.

In this case the ratio is 3,33:1.

Imagining a dice roll of 7, the losses for the division are 15%, consequently the division retreat 2 hexes with only 5100 men left.


Another example

Two cavalry divisions of equal numbers make contact; the first one is a vanguard of a corps of 25,000 men placed two hexes behind, so inside the battle radius, while the second one is alone.

The commander can ask for the Quick Battle resolution because the ratio of troops in the battle radius is more than 3:1 but the ratio of the two units in contact is 1:1 so the table to look at for the dice roll is the "1:1 or less".

If the dice roll is 7, then the cavalry retreat two hexes without taking casualties.
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Offline Jakmin

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2021, 10:53:10 AM »
Un'alternativa potrebbe essere impostare un lato mappa per la fuga dell'unitŗ minore, l'unitŗ maggiore le da la caccia.
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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2021, 11:08:41 AM »
Sž, tieni presente che questa Ť una possibilitŗ che viene data ma se uno vuole puÚ rischiare e provare a scappare in una classica battaglia multiplayer cercando di raggiungere un punto di uscita.

Yes, take in account that this is a possibility given to a commander but if he wants, he can take the risk and try to escape in a multiplayer battle trying to reach an exit point.
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Offline neilnilly

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2022, 04:13:41 PM »
I know that sandman asked to be able to withdraw from the battle of binche, without playing the battle.
For me it would not be a problem, the only thing I propose, however, is to give a small malus to the recovery of the losses by the Prussian side,
to simulate the fact that they have yet to disengage from the enemy.
I am open to considerations and proposals, if not for me we can fight the battle.
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Offline Biondo

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Re: Waterloo Campaign Rules
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2022, 09:26:53 AM »
I already discussed with Sandman some ideas about the disengagement rules but I preferred to not discuss immediately due the ongoing battle at Binche.

Anyway now I think we can discuss it ;D

For this battle I suggest to keep with the existing rules, this means comparing the fresh cavalry of both sides and adjust consequently the recovery percentage for the prussian.

The French were not engaged in any fight during the last phase of the battle and then the night has fallen. In my opinion this means that in the 17th morning there's enough room for the prussian to withdraw without taking any other malus.

For the future I'll propose to stop the battle when the afternoon phase is over and then, taking advantage of the night, an Army can try to move away from the battlefield; a dice roll will determine if the retreat is successful or not and, in the latter case, a malus is added to the recovery percentage. An option could be to add a small malus also if the retreat is successful, to simulate the night march and the inevitable losses of some troops. Another possibility is that if the retreat is not successful, then the battle continue in the same place.

What do you think guys?
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