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Author Topic: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT  (Read 721 times)

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Online General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2020, 05:53:57 PM »
First of all, I would like to express my appreciation for the victory the opposing side has won under General Biondo.  :winner

My personal assessment of the battle is ambivalent.

While my basic plan turned out to be a good approach, because the Allies expected a flank attack in the east due to a successful deception, there were some adversities in the implementation, which thwarted the prospect of success.
My plan was as follows:
- Advance to the main target of the Gerard Corps under Fabian and his Spanish generals
- After the expected takeover of the target point by the Allies, a line of attack SSW should be established
- The French guard was supposed to switch unnoticed in the south to the WNW after faking an eastern bypass, in order to launch a push attack on the allied right flank in the west.
- In preparation, the Gerard Corps should isolate and smash the upstream right flank of the Allies represented by Jakmin's Division in large numbers or force them back towards the center.
- The intended thrust attack by the guard should then be carried out surprisingly in the final third of the battle-time by advancing from WNW as close as possible to the target point without resistance.

The main adversities were as follows:
1. Unfortunately, Jakmin's division could not be fought as hoped, because Colbert's Dutch division may have exonerated Gerard's rights as ordered by Biondo. The losses of the French were very high at the beginning of the offensive.
2. Fabian's generals were able to throw Jakmin back, but less towards the center than much more north-northwest, which later prevented the Guard from advancing quickly.
3. A sufficient number of cavalry reserves had been kept in the northwestern rear area of ​​the Allies, which further slowed the advance of the guard when trying to advance deeply into the allies right wing. Since the French Guard did not have its own mounted units, this could not be countered effectively.
4. The Guard's attack was not closed. The grenadiers under Neil and the chasseurs under my command were quite far apart. Neil's Clou could theoretically have been very successful, but Sargon's division was able to defend the back area in time due to the short distance from the left Allied flank. Additionally allied cavalry squadrons were also found here.

I may not have communicated with my generals precisely enough. In the beginning I recommended Fabian to use a BDE of cavalry to try to realize Jakmin's isolation. However, I did not suggest that the French cavalry be spared otherwise in order to fight the Allied cavalry or to support the most promising section for the main attack.
I was only informed about the positioning of the Allied cavalry when I myself advanced with Morand's division in the west. The order to command the French cavalry to support the guard may have come too late in the absence of adequate preparation time.
Perhaps I hadn't expressed myself clearly enough to Neil, who commanded Friant's Grenadiers and flanked very widely in the north. He had actually been instructed to flank to the left of my middle guard and to advance as far as possible towards the target point with little contact with the enemy, with the aim of pressing the already weakened allied right wing in an L-shape. The two conditions should actually be cumulative and not alternative.

Basically, with a limited battle-time of 3 hours, a complex bypass is often too time-consuming. However, the purely linear battle management is very monotonous in the long run and the softening of lines of approximately the same strength mostly also takes up a lot of time, even in the best case.

It is nevertheless very enriching to cooperate with so far not or little known, but very inspired generals, to learn from each other and to adapt to their individual peculiarities considering the different styles of communication.

Thanks for the shared experience!  :howdy

Offline GeneralGandhi

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2020, 07:21:17 PM »
Masterful exposition of the intentions of the French side.

Inevitably subordinate generals interpret with difficulty the music sheet that the supreme commander conceives, due to the dynamism of the battle itself.

I have copied your message in the Spanish forum for discussion of the participating generals.

I encourage you to intervene in the debate, using the google translator we can quickly understand each other.

Otherwise I will try to put here the conclusions that we are reaching.  :howdy

Offline Jakmin

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2020, 08:29:36 PM »
Gandhi, estoy esperando la autorización del foro;)

Offline tadzio73

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2020, 08:38:04 AM »
Gandhi, estoy esperando la autorización del foro;)
Jakin, abbiamo avvisato gli amministratori del forum, hai il log monitorato per problemi con i bot e lo spam.
Jakin, hemos avisado a los administradores del foro, tienes el registro supervisado por los problemas con los bots y el spam.

Online General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2020, 10:56:27 AM »
Masterful exposition of the intentions of the French side.

Inevitably subordinate generals interpret with difficulty the music sheet that the supreme commander conceives, due to the dynamism of the battle itself.

I have copied your message in the Spanish forum for discussion of the participating generals.

I encourage you to intervene in the debate, using the google translator we can quickly understand each other.

Otherwise I will try to put here the conclusions that we are reaching.  :howdy


Thank you!

If you might post the dedicated link I would gladly follow the discussion.

Offline GeneralGandhi

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2020, 11:59:13 AM »
Masterful exposition of the intentions of the French side.

Inevitably subordinate generals interpret with difficulty the music sheet that the supreme commander conceives, due to the dynamism of the battle itself.

I have copied your message in the Spanish forum for discussion of the participating generals.

I encourage you to intervene in the debate, using the google translator we can quickly understand each other.

Otherwise I will try to put here the conclusions that we are reaching.  :howdy


Thank you!

If you might post the dedicated link I would gladly follow the discussion.

Here you have them, the first page of the thread with the general presentation (still incomplete) and your specific comment translated in that same thread.

Gandhi, estoy esperando la autorización del foro;)


Non sapevo che ora richiedessero la convalida della registrazione a Punta de Lanza. Supongo que el administrador pronto te dará autorización

Online General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2020, 10:40:22 AM »
Due to the very detailed discussion of this battle in the forum of our Spanish comrades from "Punta de Lanza", I would like to take the liberty of commenting on the initial attack by the Gerard Corps and the main attack with the participation of the Guard.
Basically, this kind of scenario setup is a very big challenge for a party that cannot reach the main goal before or even with the arrival of the opponent, because the occupation of the target point, unlike an attack / defend mission, also used to be the same reward in the form of points in favor of the defender. A certain compensation for this should certainly be the secondary goal, but this reward should only last for a short time, especially since the forces of the early bird had enough time to set up defense lines in advantageous positions before the French arrived. It would therefore be utopian to assume that taking the main goal in the final phase alone could bring victory. Therefore, from the French point of view, it would have been additionally necessary to cause the Allies a significantly higher number of losses than one would have had to suffer in order to compensate for the accumulation of posession-points over a period of a good three quarters of the total time. An earlier take on the main goal, around half time, I consider unrealistic under the given conditions.
In this respect, however, this is not unfair, since the real battle situations in history rarely offered completely balanced starting points, and in our MP sessions one or the other may benefit from certain advantages. In addition, the designer of a scenario usually leaves the choice of side to the other marshals. I myself often benefited from coincidentally advantageous conditions.

To be continued ...

Offline Jakmin

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2020, 11:05:21 AM »
Ottima osservazione, gen. Sandman.

Offline GeneralGandhi

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2020, 12:40:05 PM »



Sei stato in grado di completare la registrazione nel forum, Jakmin?

On the other hand, could someone upload the replay from the British side? It is to compare the evolution of casualties at specific times and try to make some graphs.

Offline tadzio73

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2020, 01:06:15 PM »
The Spanish comrades commented on the importance of the cavalry for the final outcome of the battle. The Allied cavalry was always very hide while a French brigade displaced to the north caused casualties although perhaps not enough on Jakmin's division.
The fact is that when the guard attack started that brigade left the left wing and the whole French attack was exposed to the Allied cavalry, especially important for the Friant (Neil) division.
The cavalry division was in command of the AI, led by Fabian who was too far away to observe the situation, we reflected on the importance that a human would have to lead exclusively to the cavalry in order to have more control over their actions. The Spanish had that mistake in the initial election of generals and we hope to learn from it for the future.

I also wanted to highlight the huge losses my division sustained in the early stages of the battle, which General Sandman has already commented on. Although apparently my situation was good because I was flanking the English lines, I was unable to counteract the close presence of the artillery that Jakmin had set up and which was brutally focused on my lines. It seems incredible but in about 20 minutes I lost half of my division.
I've uploaded a video of the battle from my point of view[/url], I've tried to make an edit to remove the composition of the messages and especially the turns of the character that can be very annoying, however I've left out a few. I also want to apologize for the background noises, one of my comrades left the microphone open.



Great battle generals.

Online General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2020, 02:14:52 PM »
Yes, for my part I followed General Ghandi´s link and watched the discussion on the PdL forum rather carefully.  :book

My honest compliments!  :thumbsup  It is amazing how passionate and detailed the event is discussed there. Also extensive effort for analyzing has been done.  :meeting
The stimulating, sometimes ironic style of writing makes the reading entertaining.  :coffeescreen

Offline Biondo

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2020, 02:26:49 PM »
On the other hand, could someone upload the replay from the British side? It is to compare the evolution of casualties at specific times and try to make some graphs.

You can modify the replay file to see both sides.

Open the replay file with a text editor, after some row, like 10/20, I can't remember exactly you'll find

",ME,"

delete ME leaving the commas and save.

Otherwise I'll try to upload later today :thumbsup

Offline GeneralGandhi

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Saturday 16/05/2020 at 20:00 GMT
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2020, 07:58:54 PM »
 :thumbsup

 

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