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Offline mitra76

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First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« on: September 22, 2019, 08:29:38 PM »
I completed the first version of software for the carryover\campaign management (I'm improving the graphic and making the installer), so I decided to define the manual part of campaign on the paper: I propose this schema:

First Battle: Frontline Battle

Next battles types will be decided by the victory conditions.

Victory conditions:

<1000 points difference -> draw -> same kind of battle just fought
<2000 points difference -> minor victory -> protect line battle with the losers in a new defensive line, the attacker on the previous scenario line.
<3000 points difference -> major victory -> attack\defense battle with the losers in a new defensive line


Types of Battle:

Frontline Battle
Time: 2:00
Objectives: 3, occupier: both, type: Hold, time: 15 minutes, points: 500, occupiers 1000, range: 200, occ.mod: 2


Protect The Line battle
Time: 2:00
Objectives: 6, occupier: 3 for Allied and 3 for French, type: Hold, time: 15 minutes, points: 500, occupiers 1000, range: 200, occ.mod: 2


Attack\Defense Battle
Time: 2:00
Objectives: 3 occupier: the attacker, type Waypoint, time 15 minutes, points: 1000, occupiers: 1000, range 200, occ.mod: 2.  The defender will receive 1000 points at the end of scenario for each objectives still in his possesion at the end of scenario (to manage manually).


So resuming the first battle will be a frontline clash; the kind of victory will define what battle next; for each side will be 3 defensive line; after have lost the last one, the campaign is lost.

The software will manage the armies, after each battle,  like this:

-> killed men are lost
-> captured units are lost
-> wounded are recovered at the 50%
-> deserted are recovered at the 80%
-> a 1% of reinforcements are given for unit
-> 3 points morale and 3 points fatigue are recovered
-> a unit captured to the enemy is converted in a friendly reinforcement
-> every unit will receive reinforcements on the base of points done in the previous battle: the number of men are calculated dividing the points for the average of units characteristics.

-> 1 AI cavalry brigade with 4 squadrons of 200 men fevery two infantry division
-> every infantry division will be formed by 2 brigade of 4 battalions of 800 men + a battery of 8 pieces

What do you prefer, we continue with the current campaign, or we restart a new one with these rules sicne the first battle?




« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 09:50:29 PM by mitra76 »
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Offline Biondo

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2019, 06:03:31 AM »
I think we could start a new campaign testing this new rules, if everyone agrees.

Does Occ mod 2 means that if the objective changes owner during the battle that the points are doubled?
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Offline General Sandman

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 05:06:56 PM »
1. I am not so happy with only 1.30 h of battle time. Although the distance between the opposing forces might not be so far, I say that a minimum of tactical maneuvres should be possible. As you know, in napoleonic warfare a well performed maneuvre mostly can only bear fruits after a certain battle caused attrition.

2. My opinion is, to only start with a new campaign as soon as all essential adjustments of the campaign-creation-tool have been finished. After the "Beta" phase is completed, we then could begin a retribution rich campaign.

3. If possible, it might be natural to give flexible moral boni according a bataillons performance in the previous battle. To be able to do so, of course there have to be relevant values from outcome tables available.
So for routed formations, we could also think about moral mali.
For logical concerns, the regeneration of fatigue should be significantly higher than the value a unit can achieve for at least one hour or perhaps a whole battle period of resting in the field. Here the same, previously routed formations should gain less, because the running and increased rallying process costs more energy.
Again, of course everything depends on the available data.

Thank you for all the effort and improvements!  :thumbsup
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Offline mitra76

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 08:21:07 PM »
Thanks for the feedback

Quote
I am not so happy with only 1.30 h of battle time. Although the distance between the opposing forces might not be so far, I say that a minimum of tactical maneuvres should be possible. As you know, in napoleonic warfare a well performed maneuvre mostly can only bear fruits after a certain battle caused attrition.

This depends from the number of players, if the number of units is high, distance from the objectives and time increase and so possibility to move in the map. But if the total of men is low, a too much long battle will destroy all the units at the first battle. We need to check how many players we going to have (in total for the campaign not for a single battle).

Quote
My opinion is, to only start with a new campaign as soon as all essential adjustments of the campaign-creation-tool have been finished. After the "Beta" phase is completed, we then could begin a retribution rich campaign.

The software in this version is completed; the next evolution will require months. What we need to test now are the rules to manage this version of campaign. We can proceed with the current no problem for me. In the meantime we can collect the names of people who want partecipate to the next one.

Quote
If possible, it might be natural to give flexible moral boni according a bataillons performance in the previous battle. To be able to do so, of course there have to be relevant values from outcome tables available.
So for routed formations, we could also think about moral mali.
For logical concerns, the regeneration of fatigue should be significantly higher than the value a unit can achieve for at least one hour or perhaps a whole battle period of resting in the field. Here the same, previously routed formations should gain less, because the running and increased rallying process costs more energy.

Well routed units are already autopenalized because from 0 morale they cannot go above the 3 morale (broken) so they're not really able to fight at the start of battle (they start to run at the first death), the same is valid for fatigue, exactly because they ran they start with less fatigue level in the new scenario. But of course a routed unit can terminate a battle with positive points so we can think a some morale\fatigue bonus in addition to the base 3 on the base of points done.

I think we'll be good create a post in order to recruits the players who want partecipate to the next campaign, until then we can proceed with the old one.


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Offline mitra76

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 08:22:47 PM »
Does Occ mod 2 means that if the objective changes owner during the battle that the points are doubled?

yes
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Offline General Sandman

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 11:32:06 AM »

...
I think we'll be good create a post in order to recruits the players who want partecipate to the next campaign, until then we can proceed with the old one.

That sounds like making good sense, although I already have a certain idea about who these players will be.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 11:55:47 AM by General Sandman »
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“We were the ones who knew but did not understand, well informed but without insight, overloaded with factual data but poor in experience and wisdom. So we went, not stopped by ourselves."

Based on Roger Willemsen R.I.P.

Offline General Sandman

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 11:54:29 AM »
Thanks for the feedback

Quote
I am not so happy with only 1.30 h of battle time. Although the distance between the opposing forces might not be so far, I say that a minimum of tactical maneuvres should be possible. As you know, in napoleonic warfare a well performed maneuvre mostly can only bear fruits after a certain battle caused attrition.

This depends from the number of players, if the number of units is high, distance from the objectives and time increase and so possibility to move in the map. But if the total of men is low, a too much long battle will destroy all the units at the first battle. We need to check how many players we going to have (in total for the campaign not for a single battle).
...

I think, it is the challenge of a campaign for the generals themselves to deploy the available resources from a sustainability perspective.
That said, the commanders should be forced to decide, when to untilize wether larger or smaller force and temporarily give a part of the units a rest or a less demanding task.

So I would suggest to set the minimum battle time to at least 120 minutes.

Furthermore it would make sense to have an agreement to temporarily empower the team/CiC to assign players for administrative considerations to a different unit, if the actual commander isnt present. Therefore it would be very helpful to have a kind of battle report about the previous outcome available.
There might be apps yet, but they arent supposed to be reliable, are they?
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Who we were

“We were the ones who knew but did not understand, well informed but without insight, overloaded with factual data but poor in experience and wisdom. So we went, not stopped by ourselves."

Based on Roger Willemsen R.I.P.

Offline mitra76

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 09:55:10 PM »
Quote
So I would suggest to set the minimum battle time to at least 120 minutes.

ok let use 120 minutes.

Quote
Furthermore it would make sense to have an agreement to temporarily empower the team/CiC to assign players for administrative considerations to a different unit, if the actual commander isnt present. Therefore it would be very helpful to have a kind of battle report about the previous outcome available.
There might be apps yet, but they arent supposed to be reliable, are they?

Currently not in this version, I plan in the next evolution to have master - client perspective where the master organize the campaign and take care to import data from the battles and the client organize own forces and check own side of next battle.

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Offline General Sandman

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Re: First raw schemas about the campaign rules
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 10:03:17 PM »
...

Currently not in this version, I plan in the next evolution to have master - client perspective where the master organize the campaign and take care to import data from the battles and the client organize own forces and check own side of next battle.

The time of implementation is secondary, but I am happy to hear, that the feature might be realized perspectively.  :thumbsup
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Who we were

“We were the ones who knew but did not understand, well informed but without insight, overloaded with factual data but poor in experience and wisdom. So we went, not stopped by ourselves."

Based on Roger Willemsen R.I.P.

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