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Author Topic: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18  (Read 9677 times)

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Offline HerrPaulchen

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 11:55:45 AM »


In my opinion, the simplified scheme of the battle looked like this.

From this it is clear that the division (?) Of the French, who made a roundabout maneuver and a flank attack, was subjected to a dense counterattack.
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Offline Asid

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 12:28:12 PM »
This was a great battle against some great and experienced Generals :bonaparte




The above image does not show that the enemy had a very strong fort and I diverted troops from a division on our right to help with our push on the left.

The French did NOT make it easy  :Wag finger . They made manoeuvres which were hard to anticipate and counter. However in the end, we, the Prussians, worked well together. We had a good line of communication and my Generals followed my commands  :meeting

The team of Colbert, Biondo and Sandman are not easy to beat  :Wag finger They are more than a match for any team  :notworthy

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Offline HerrPaulchen

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 12:56:31 PM »
The above image does not show that the enemy had a very strong fort and I diverted troops from a division on our right to help with our push on the left.

Yes it is. But it seemed to me that after the battle on this plateau, taking the fortress was already a matter of technique.

I showed you the way I saw the fight. What was at the fortress - it's hard for me to say. I went there only at the very end of the battle. And 80% of the time was on the right flank.
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Offline Asid

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 12:58:30 PM »

Yes it is. But it seemed to me that after the battle on this plateau, taking the fortress was already a matter of technique.

Taking a fortress in SOW can be very costly and time consuming  :R.I.P.

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Offline HerrPaulchen

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 01:03:00 PM »
Taking a fortress in SOW can be very costly and time consuming  :R.I.P.
Yes, definitely so! But is there any special tactic? For me, the issue of taking a fortress still remains the most difficult to understand issue. Are there any recommendations?
Or is there the main onslaught, onslaught, onslaught?


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Offline Asid

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 01:23:35 PM »
I usually concentrate my artillery at the fortress for as long as I can to do damage. I then move troops closer to fire upon it. Be careful because you could easily lose a lot of troops if you are to early in the attack or to close.

When the fort is damaged enough and the morale has dropped of the troops inside, they start to leave.
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Offline General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 05:15:05 AM »
The above image does not show that the enemy had a very strong fort and I diverted troops from a division on our right to help with our push on the left.

Yes it is. But it seemed to me that after the battle on this plateau, taking the fortress was already a matter of technique.

I showed you the way I saw the fight. What was at the fortress - it's hard for me to say. I went there only at the very end of the battle. And 80% of the time was on the right flank.


The fortress itself has never been taken by prussian forces! It was occupied by french troops til the last second.
But in the last third of the battle, the Prussian forces dominated the area around the fort and so gained VP by occupying the objective´s perimeter.
This basically is a good method by the game mechanics, to not overweight the questionble stronghold-handling by the SIM.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:25:42 AM by General Sandman »
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“We were the ones who knew but did not understand, well informed but without insight, overloaded with factual data but poor in experience and wisdom. So we went, not stopped by ourselves."

Based on Roger Willemsen R.I.P.

Offline General Sandman

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2018, 07:56:29 AM »


In my opinion, the simplified scheme of the battle looked like this.

From this it is clear that the division (?) Of the French, who made a roundabout maneuver and a flank attack, was subjected to a dense counterattack.


Since the graphic is described as a simplified presentation of the battel-lineup in an early phase of the battle, this and the so drawn conclusion was an applicable analysis made by General Herr Paulchen.

If I am informed correctly there were still parts of Praetoria´s Division on the far right, which arent displayed though.

To get a bit more precise in demonstrating the initial situation the following criteria are vital:

1. The French seized and occupied the objective and the area around, without any instant threatening by the Prussians.
2. The French had sufficiant time to deploy an adequate defence line-up.
3. The Prussian cavalry with more than 4000 horses significantly outnumbered the french with barely 1800 horsemen. Additionally most of the prussian divsions had at least 1-2 cavalry squadrons, while the french were concentrated in one Cav-Division of 2 brigades.
4. The French were fitted with 7 batteries of artillery, while the Prussians only could dispose 3 of those.

Conclusion:
While the Prussian force was predestined for conducting offensive maneuvres, the french side, in releation to the concrete opponent, was much more determined to defend.
Therefore the initial situation seemed to be promising for the French.
For me btw, its interesting to also have non-linear battles in force, since that is another aspect of immersion.

Analysis:
The french CiC Biondo remarked, that the french intelligence at this time didnt worked well, because he wasnt informed about the striking disproportion of cavalry of more than 1:2. In this case, the french cavarly only should have been brought into play to intercept direct enemy cavalry threats against the french infantry and striktly in close cooperation with it. To conduct engagements of pure cavalry vs. cavalry combat or using up the mobile forces against well prepared infantry, for the French side would inevitably lead to a situation of facing still strong enemy cavalry formations without the ability to dispose own fit for use horsemen. In Napoleonic Warfare such a constellation is actually always a clear factor for victory.

The initial situation for the French wasnt indicated to conduct any offensive maneuvres, unless there is a very clear opportunity to gain advantage from such.
Exactly this applied in the first phase of the battle on the W flank, respectively on the french left, where General Sandman deployed his infantry division:

1. The French outnumbered the opponent.
2. The French were overlapping the opponents line, so that they were enabled to outflank the Prussians.
3. At this end there was no prussian cavalry at all.
4. Also there wasnt any prussian artillery in the vinicity of the prussian far right.
5. The Prussians had no reserves on their right flank.
6. The prussian divisional commander fell due a heartattack or stroke in the wake of the deployment.
7. Perhaps parts of the prussian division were shifted away by the prussian CiC Asid who took over the command after the organic divisional leader fell.

When General Sandman realized the situation, he informed the french CiC Biondo about his plan trying to exploit from it by attacking the prussian flank and somewhat later has been authorized to do so. The Prussians chose the correct parade by sending skirmishers to delay the attack, while withdrawing the majortiy to the centre where 2 other prussian divisions with all kind of troops were depolyed. Since General Sandman did not command any cavalry squadron, it therefore was impossible to force the outer prussian division into engagements while outflanking it with his 2nd brigade.
The attack initially only was meant to become a temporary engagement to gain a possible benefit from a certain opportuinity. It wasnt intended to be a continious advance, because it wasnt neither promising nor nessecairy to advance to the prussian centre. After the Prussian Division fell back, the opportunity was gone and for the French, the right thing to do, actually was to redeploy backwards on the objective´s NNW.

What went wrong for the tricolore?
Probably General Sandman missed a deeper communication with CiC Biondo to inform him in time, that the enemy parried well by withdrawing to their centre and that General Sandman now tends to redeploy to the french line-up linking wtih the french centre to the left, then being able to defend the objective while Biondo supports General Colbert´s desperate defence against the prussian main attack in the east.
Perhaps CiC Biondo felt obliged to support General Sandman´s mistakenly supposed continious attack on the prussian centre. Therefore he sent cavalry to flank the alleged offence, but was intercepted and doomed to fail, since due a gap in the front it wasnt possible to directly ccoperate with Sandman´s force. Very soon he had to withdraw to support the already weakened General Colbert who faced strong prussian formations with numerous cavalry.
When General Sandman received CiC´s order to further pushing onto the enemy, he actually planned to redeploy as mentioned, but instead he followed according the order, because General Biondo´s engagement to support him relied on simultaneity.
After the offence couldnt kept up, General Sandman was isolated and now was outnumbered himself. He then had to fight a costly rearguard action against multible prussian infantry, several cavalry squadrons supported by a battery. In the end he formed a new defence line with his remaining 5 batallions and 4 cannons, but the enemy, now probably somewhat exhausted himself, disengaged to move to support the final prussian attack on the objective. For an instant Sandman was in vain confident to have bound enough enemies to relieve the defence at the objectiv.
When General Sandman´s remaining troops recovered a bit, he moved to support at the objective, but the battle was already decided. The prussians now dominated the perimeter of the strongpoint. There were no more remarkable french formations left. His only fairly conditioned force was intercepted by all kind of prussian troops and was forced to rout eternally.

During the first battle review, General Biondo also remarked, that the french heavy batteries´ deployment wasnt effective. He probably intended to use it for 2 major purposes:
1. Long range barrage of enemy lines
2. while occupying the objective at the same time.
Unfortunately the distance to the enemy was too large to weaken him adequately from an early stage on.


So did the Prussians automatically succeed because of several mistakes by the French?

Not at all! The Prussian commanders realzied their own strenghes and were able to exploit them by conducting the right maneuvres on the right places at the right time. They compensated the early loss of the notorious commander General Praetoria and gained a decesive victory, which was sealed impressively soon, when the french cavalry was mostly taken out and 1 french division was forced to isolation.

Hail to to Generals Asid, KlausVarna, Herr Paulchen and Praetoria.  :winner
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:14:21 AM by General Sandman »
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Who we were

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Offline Biondo

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2018, 11:41:04 AM »
To me, general Sandman's account perfectly represent what happened in this battle (at least what we feel it happened).

I underestimated enemy cavalry numbers and this lead to some mistakes I made in this battle.

I was supporting Sandman's action on the enemy right flank, which I still believe was a correct manoeuvre, with a cavalry brigade. Then Colbert asked for cavalry reinforcements on our right because the enemy cavalry, combined with artillery and infantry, was causing a lot of damage to his troops. I sent the second cavalry brigade, which was ready for a second attack on our left, to help Colbert. When I realize how much cavalry the prussian had, it was too late :R.I.P.

I set up a defence on a sort of gentle ridge north of the fort but it was too far for our heavy batteries and the terrain helped the enemy which was behind that ridge.

I also suffered a cavalry delay manoeuvre on one of my reserve infantry brigade which prevent them to deploy where I wanted them. My division was so splitted, part in the centre (this was the original plan) and part right behind Colbert's division.

The enemy played better than us, that's all :howdy
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Offline Colbert

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2018, 12:12:58 PM »
 :laughing4  :lol :banghead :waving-white-flag :Guillotine :clap2
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Offline Asid

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 12:30:51 PM »
Excellent report General Sandman  :teach

General Praetoria was on our right initially with a mixed division but had to leave the field of battle. I as the CIC took over control of his division. I moved some of it to our left to support the cavalry attack and left some on the right.

This battle went very well for the Prussians. I managed to read the battle very well. My generals, Klaus and HerrPaulchen followed my exact orders. Originally HerrPaulchen was to be reserve but when General Praetoria could not continue this changed.

The Prussians communicated very well and intercepted many French couriers. This interception broke their lines of command and control.

I initially warned my generals of the great General Biondo and his skill with cavalry. We were ready.

I initially intercepted a French division which had the heavy battery. I managed to capture some pieces. I then decided to push hard on our left. I faced the brave General Colbert. He put up a strong defence but I smashed his squares and lines with canister. He suffered over 60% losses. He was finished! This took some time though because he had support from some cavalry.

When we were ready I gave the order to push forward and assault the fortress. General Sandman tried to rush French forces from his failed flanking manœuvre on our right to support the fortress but I intercepted him. He lost many brave men.

This was a great battle. I managed to read the conditions very well and made best use of our forces. I could not have done it without my generals HerrPaulchen and Klaus.

Well played all
:clap3
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Offline Colbert

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Re: SOW Waterloo Multiplayer Wednesday 07/02/18
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 03:20:19 PM »
Great general Asid  :howdy :Soldier_salute
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