Forum > Theater of Operations: World at War
Information and SNAFU's
A Canadian Cat:
LOL glad you appreciated it.
I think the concept is sound and I look forward to seeing it in action. A lot of gamers are used to perfect information so the reaction will be interesting. Are there many other examples of operational level or fantasy RTS games present imperfect information to players? The system in Scourge of War Waterloo sounds pretty interesting for example.
Asid:
--- Quote from: A Canadian Cat on October 05, 2017, 04:27:41 PM ---A lot of gamers are used to perfect information so the reaction will be interesting.
--- End quote ---
Many just want to point and click and have everything, including information readily at hand.
--- Quote from: A Canadian Cat on October 05, 2017, 04:27:41 PM ---
Are there many other examples of operational level or fantasy RTS games present imperfect information to players? The system in Scourge of War Waterloo sounds pretty interesting for example.
--- End quote ---
Campaigns on the Danube 1805 - 1809 (one of the best for FOW/Delay)
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/282/details/Campaigns.On.The.Danube
Command OPs I & II ( II the engine plus some scenarios are free)
http://www.panthergames.com/
choppinlt:
Cat and Asid, agreed lots of gamers want perfect obedience to their plans and information. That is why I want to make this a game setting. Players can choose Full Fog meaning all information may or may not be accurate, or Partial Fog where only enemy information is in doubt. Same with SNAFU's, they can either be On or Off. Caveat..assuming the programmers can make this happen without undue effort!
--- Quote from: Asid on October 05, 2017, 04:46:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: A Canadian Cat on October 05, 2017, 04:27:41 PM ---
Are there many other examples of operational level or fantasy RTS games present imperfect information to players? The system in Scourge of War Waterloo sounds pretty interesting for example.
--- End quote ---
Campaigns on the Danube 1805 - 1809 (one of the best for FOW/Delay)
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/282/details/Campaigns.On.The.Danube
Command OPs I & II ( II the engine plus some scenarios are free)
http://www.panthergames.com/
--- End quote ---
Cat, that is a good question. There are games that deal with fog and command delays (like Command Ops), but I am not aware of many that deal with a lack of good information from your own forces. If anyone knows of any other game that does, please let me know! As for Campaigns on the Danube I have not played that title, though it does look intriguing. Clearly information flow and reactions will happen at a much faster pace than Napoleonic time frames, though it is a great illustration of the concept I am trying to replicate.
Christian Knudsen:
This would be Awesome, but will require a deft touch and much testing, esp for balancing in an operation, as this sort of global setting tends to snowball, just like in real life (Scenario idea: June 22, '41. You are the commander of the Soviet 10th Army...). The challenge will be in setting the levels both in terms of starting points and ongoing deterioration so as to not make the operation essentially unwinnable given a poor/unlucky start. I like the idea of making a slider, though.
I think this (and command delay) are great ideas, and I definitely would love to see them - but let's watch out for feature creep, as you mentioned!
Another thing that will be heavily influenced by this will be the scouting/recce/ZOC system. On one hand, this feature may be great because it will encourage actual use of reconnaissance units to, well, reconnoiter! But OTOH the basic info collecting and ZOC system will need a lot of tuning because of the interactions between unit experience and capability, etc, and accurate reporting, all needing to be layered by the SNAFU mechanic in order to avoid snowballing.
choppinlt:
Agreed, it will require plenty of testing to make sure we get it at an acceptable level. Got anyone in mind to help with that CK? ;)
Just to be clear command delays have always been part of the design and are seen in the current scenario...not always explicitly stated though. Fog for enemy units has also always been part of the design...it has to be for this design concept. It is my desire to reward the recon mission! As you know part of the recon mission is intel gathering, but part of that mission is screening. So movement behind a screen will be much harder to detect. So what I am talking about is to take it a step further in that all information feedback is delayed...creating fog for friendly troops. So what we as players may be seeing on the screen could be what happened a few turns ago. I think it adds to the planning and anticipation of events at the command level.
Right now when I say SNAFU effect in ToO, I am talking only about the "order" process; issuing, receipt and execution. Certainly SNAFU's happen in all facets of operations, but in terms of ToO that is my current context. That may change as we go along....
At the same time, it is imperative to remember that this is a game that needs to appeal to enough people to make it sustainable. For instance if ToO sells 5 copies I can guarantee that there will be no expansion DLC, or software support post-release, etc... So this is part of the reason I am wanting to bring this all up.
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