Translations for our friends around the world.

eSim

esimwhite1
 Save

Author Topic: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine  (Read 32159 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Asid

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 15939
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #255 on: September 27, 2018, 12:07:57 AM »
Rinix. Did you expect any different?

I stand against Racism, Bigotry and Bullying

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #256 on: September 27, 2018, 12:58:22 AM »
Rinix. Did you expect any different?
Not really.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #257 on: October 09, 2018, 08:09:08 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11147-ugv-and-uav-deployment/?tab=comments#comment-185018
This exchange pretty much confirms that we're going to have to wait until the next major version for an already completed bug fix. This means that we can forget about "At least one more free update".

http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-185019
Quote from: Haferja
Quote from: inexus
I paid for the latest version as the landscape upgrade was supposed to be included in it.

Now I have to pay again to get what I already paid for?
Just my statement:

This was the main reason for me aswell. Then i waited, waited and waited..

I know/read the reasons for that. Nevertheless i`m disappointed.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Online Asid

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 15939
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #258 on: October 10, 2018, 12:02:21 AM »
I understand where Inexus is coming from.

What about the people who only purchased because of the terrain? They will have to pay more now.

I stand against Racism, Bigotry and Bullying

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #259 on: October 10, 2018, 04:47:24 PM »
I understand where Inexus is coming from.

What about the people who only purchased because of the terrain? They will have to pay more now.
Of course, the "community" can't understand: http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-185054
Quote from: BlackDeath
Did you pay 25$ just for the landscape upgrade you don't know anything about?
I didn't. I paid for the whole lot included in 4.0, that is tons of new vehicles, lot of them crewable (T-55 :x), and lot of other cool new features! Check out the release notes, that is what you paid for!
http://www.steelbeasts.com/updates/SBProPE_4-0_RN.pdf
Is the landscape upgrade such a big deal to you?
The new terrain engine is not some unknown. It was a major promised feature of 4.0, which appeared prominently in multiple trailers. We know that it will be a major improvement in resolution over the 12.5 meter resolution we have now. We know that it will have delta maps for per-scenario modifications to map data. We know that it will change the file system for maps.

Quote
In the next version, you might have so much more than the landscape upgrade, well worth 25$ to me (if same price).

Just my 2 cents..
We'll also have a broken contract to deliver the new terrain engine with 4.0, because as I've pointed out before, that's exactly what has happened.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #260 on: October 11, 2018, 12:56:58 AM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-185060
At least there's some good news.
Quote from: Ssnake
I can certainly relate to the disappointment. At the same time I have to look at the practocalities of a rollout. The best compromise that I can offer is that the next upgrade will be reduced in price, and will contain a lot more than just the new terrain engine. We did a bit more in the last two years than to redesign the file handling. :)
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Online Frankie

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1111
  • From Dogs of War to Pipes Of Peace
    • Frankie's Moodurian
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #261 on: October 11, 2018, 02:45:49 PM »
Some good news indeed.

After the Dogs of War are let slip, let us smoke the Pipes Of Peace.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #262 on: October 12, 2018, 04:44:55 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-185083
Quote from: Ssnake
I'm pretty certain about "similar requirements", yes.

Most of the "costs" of the new engine are already in 4.0 (that's why you have a lower frame rate than in 3.0); one of the activities we invested in was to make 4.1 perform with higher frame rates.

Thanks to Frankie for prompting this response: http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-185084
Quote from: Ssnake
The final decision hasn't been made yet, so I'll refrain from going into detail until we know for certain what we're going to release, and when. At that point, following eSim traditions, there will be a near-full disclosure of new features (leaving a few extras for you to discover after purchase).
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #263 on: October 16, 2018, 04:33:42 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-185174
After some other members post about how we should be satisfied, Ssnake responds:
Quote from: Ssnake
The patch idea was floated in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 release when "we thought"(TM) that we could fix things quickly. Once that this window of opportunity (WOO) closed this no longer was a practical idea.
At some point you have too many code branches and must consolidate them. Which means to conflate the pure engine update (that you promised to deliver, for free) with all the feature updates that you've been working on after said WOO closed. So, I'm 100% guilty of being overly excited in April 2016 when I shouldn't have mentioned the new terrain, and blurting it out in public. I said it before, I'll repeat it now: I'm really, really sorry about this.
The temptation is strong to list all the other things we've been working on in the past two years, but the only way to learn from 2016 is to not tell you about it until after we're certain to have a viable new product, and that will be decided upon some time in January, February 2019.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Online Asid

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 15939
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #264 on: October 17, 2018, 01:15:26 PM »
 :suckers

I stand against Racism, Bigotry and Bullying

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #265 on: October 17, 2018, 03:52:12 PM »
Meanwhile, the "community" got so insistent that Ssnake repeat his previous mistake that Ssnake had to flat out say "no".
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #266 on: October 23, 2018, 04:19:38 PM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-185341
This raises the question: will any 12.5 meter resolution maps that were based on 10 meter maps be replaced with the 10 meter original maps?
Quote from: Ssnake
Well, the new terrain engine is available ... to classroom version users. I haven't published the video on the Steel Beasts Youtube channel; the video you're referring to can only be found through the news story on our homepage (I can't prevent people from posting the link elsewhere). The problem we're facing here is that the release of a PE version actually absorbs the attention of almost the entire team for almost a full quarter of a year, and we couldn't afford that break in our development routine between last October and the end of this year (that's why I keep talking about those "windows of opportunity").
Also, note that the new engine doesn't guarantee better looking terrain in any of the legacy maps and the scenarios based on them. Old maps will get the visualization of the ground's bumpiness, but otherwise must stay the same simply because the original data are of 12.5m mesh width.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #267 on: November 03, 2018, 12:49:42 AM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-185506
Quote from: BigBadVuk
So, in short we were fed with crap for the past 2 years?
Right now im not even angry any more, im disappointed... im trying to find one reason to keep supporting this simulation. :(

Rest assured eSims that i will never recommend your simulation to any other YT or Twitch channel, something i did many times for the past years since like 2005.
In fact im not even sure i will give you any single cent any more...

IT is not even about the money, it is about fail to hit every single date you have mentioned since like 2016. and then unloading that to customers.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #268 on: November 03, 2018, 02:18:47 AM »
http://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-185511
Wow. So many words just to say "I broke a contract with the community". And of course the "community" is eating it up. Cougar has already sworn that he's not buying the next update, and I won't be surprised if Beef joins him.
Quote from: Ssnake
There are things in life that I can influence, and there are others over which I have no control. A PE release costs the entire team an incredible amount of effort. This in turn limits the number of opportunities when we can actually mount the collective effort as a team to release a new version of SB Pro PE.

Everything that I have made public in the past 2 1/2 years was written in good faith and the best of intents. PE users want to be informed in advance about planned releases and what to expect in them. This forces me to make predictions about a future that I don't know. Then you hold me accountable for not knowing the future. I can't help but noticing that I find this a tad unfair.

The beta testers have been working on the new terrain engine - in its two major iterations - since March 2016, more or less non stop. You have no idea how much they tested everything, how much the new engine touches old code that needs to be adapted, the number of bugs that need to be found and fixed. Did we underestimate the scope of work? Yes.

Could all that have been avoided? Maybe, if we could afford to hire professional project managers with great expertise in software development. I know a guy who could have done that, it just would have cost us a quarter million dollars every year because these guys are a rare breed and know their market value very well. So I would have had to lay off a number of programmers to compensate for that extra expense. Would anyone have been better off that way? I don't think so. Honestly, I don't. It would have slowed down the development pace, reduced the number of new, good stuff, you might have received updates like SB Pro PE 3.3 and 3.5 instead for which we would also have charged money, and we would have told you on several occasions that we were forced to delay the release of the new engine just as well (or, we wouldn't have mentioned the new engine at all, and created the false impression that our development is stagnant).

In hindsight, I'm sorry that I announced the new terrain engine in April 2016. But that's the thing with hindsight - you know what went wrong only in retrospect. I'm pushing the team to try stuff that's really hard to do. Sometimes we fail. I'm constantly forced to make hard choices without knowing whether I'm making the right choices. At the time, I was convinced that I was doing the right thing. After July 2016 we tried our best at damage control. Then it turned out that our best efforts weren't good enough to release the revised new engine by September 2017, and beyond that point we simply couldn't find the time to halt the development work for our classroom version customers for a full quarter (because that's what it takes - the entire team working for three months on nothing else but a PE version release).
We have personnel costs in the medium-high six-digit figures every year. Somehow we must earn an equal amount of money (or better) every year just to stay in business. Sales of the Personal Edition don't remotely come near that target number, so there really isn't much choice that I have. Either the team works on new features for which we receive development money from our army customers, or we go out of business, plain and simple (hint: The new terrain engine isn't one of the things for which we get paid, we do that on our own expense).

Many of the new features that get developed on army request get entangled with the work on the new terrain engine. Beyond a certain point, separating changes in the engine from other features is no longer possible. We crossed that point some time between the beginning of this years and now. For a while we thought we could still release a free update that would roll out the new terrain, but again, we simply lacked the opportunity to put everything else on hold to do just that. Now we're at a point where this simply is no longer an option and we have to make the best of it. Which is, a new major upgrade at a reduced price.

Knowing what I know now, I'd do certain things differently. Knowing what I knew then, I would probably come to the same (wrong) conclusions. If you're telling me that you were never wrong about the future in your entire life and that you made a lot of meaningful predictions about complex situations in dynamic conditions, I have a project manager's job to offer (if you're willing to work for an amount that doesn't force me to lay off anyone else in the team).
I ride inside Steel Beasts.

Offline Rinix

  • HAVOC
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Steel Beasts
Re: Steel Beasts Dynamic Terrain Will Come After New Terrain Engine
« Reply #269 on: November 03, 2018, 06:19:35 PM »
https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/11302-eta-on-terrain-patch/?page=12&tab=comments#comment-185524
Ssnake posted this right after Apocalypse asked about "destructive terrain". Does this mean that we won't be getting dynamic terrain with the next major version of Steel Beasts?
Quote from: Ssnake
This isn't the droid you're looking for. Move along.
I ride inside Steel Beasts.